Shidduchim? There's An App For That!

Imagine if all it took to get a date would be opening an app on your phone, checking to see which guys/girls were available in the nearby vicinity, a few quick texts/first phone call, and you're off!

Apparently, this is a new thing that's catching on in the secular world. Check out this NY Times article called "With an App, Your Next Date Could Be Just Around the Corner."

Sounds interesting, right?

Of course, there are some potential issues which the article, and the makers of these apps, try to address, such as personal safety when you're meeting up with someone you've had next-to-no contact with. Users of the app seem to think highly of it, though they have some difficulty attempting to move past a mental/societal stigma that this sort of thing is geared toward hook-ups and one night stands.

They say the services allow them to skip the more elaborate mating rituals of standard online dating, which seems to move glacially in an era of text messaging and social networking.

“It can take a month to actually meet up with someone that you’re messaging online,” Ms. Wang said. Mobile services allow for a “quicker jump from virtual meetings to actually meeting.”

In my time as a shadchan, and as a dater, I know that it can take a long time to "officially" set up a date, and there is indeed a rush, because people frankly have limited time to devote to dating, especially in the fast-paced existence that we live in.

So is this sort of thing the way of the future for Jewish Orthodox dating, perhaps in more Modern/YU circles?

I tend to think we won't adopt this technology in the immediate future, particularly with our culture's obsession with resumes, fact finding, and research. Granted, everyone should try to find out something about the person who has been suggested to them, because no one wants to end up going out with a psycho who either wastes their time or puts them in danger of some sort.

However, I can see this catching on eventually, especially if it becomes more standard in secular society. We adapted the online dating model with J-Date and Future Simchas, then customized it further to be in-line with our shidduch values system with Saw You at Sinai and YU Connects - so if near-instant app dating becomes an accepted norm, I think it could happen.

Sure, you may say: "You're certifiably crazy Shades of Grey! Who in their right mind would try this or even find someone they would want to date or marry using an app that locates the nearest available singles of the opposite gender?"

I'll answer that question/exclamation with a story of my friend, who randomly met his wife while going on Yeshiva University's Torah Tours for Simchas Torah a few years ago, back when non-YU/Stern students could participate. In order to save time/gas, the CJF people running Torah Tours asked all the volunteers to coordinate rides with one another so that they could meet up and get to their communities together. My friend, along with another mutual friend, were told to pick up a girl who was assigned to their group and give her a ride to their destination. Of course, they gladly obliged - and she in fact lived one block over from his parents apartment.

I'm sure you can see where this is going. Over the course of Yom Tov they hit it off, began dating, and are now happily married with a young daughter. Too good to be true? They grew up within one block of one another and never encountered each other before! To make things spookier, upon showing his wife some old videos of us all hanging out together in Israel while we were in yeshiva, his not-yet-wife walked through the frame of one shot. Yes, they were in the exact same place, within 10-15 feet of one another and never even exchanged glances. Now they're married.

Yes, yes, you can tell me this is one more example of those crazy hashgacha pratis stories we all know and love (or hate), but hey, it happened! Imagine if we could input our own hishtadlus by making those nearby, but currently unnoticed connections sooner? Ultimately, how it works out will be in the hands of HaShem anyway, but why not "help" in anyway we can, k'v'yachol? Chazal tell us that even HaShem finds making shidduchim as hard as it was to split the Reed Sea when our ancestors left Mitzrayim, so why shouldn't we find every means of putting in our own effort?

For those who are scared of the idea of going on a date without sufficient research being conducted beforehand, I have a few ideas.

1) The dates necessarily won't be as instantaneous , but let's give a short window of opportunity, say an 1-2 hours, for the interested person, should he/she desire, to make a phone call or two.

2) If the system catches on, and we can create a network of references who "approve" the person, all you would have to do is check the list of registered references and see if there was anyone you know. The dater would have had to contact the person, invite them, we'll say, when they set up their mini-profile, and that individual has to reply and potentially be available for contact. Instead of having a few references, you could end up having a very long list - each categorized differently based on their personal connection to the dater - and odds are, you'll know someone on it, given how Jewish Geography works, especially if both of the daters live in close proximity.

3) For anyone who still wants a shadchan available - and ASoG and I have seen fewer people actually use us at all as intermediaries - those people could also be attached to the profile, "on call" as it were, for post-date follow ups and anything else that may need to be communicated, even a 1 and done reply.

I'll admit, the idea isn't perfect and would certainly require further thought and planning before YU Connects makes an app of their own like this. But with the increasingly fast-paced, time-crunched daily schedules we all deal with, perhaps this could be a new tool to be used in the never-ending quest to match up all the singles out there.

YU Don’t Connect #3 – Remind Me, How Does This Telephone Thing Work?

Welcome back to our ongoing feature of how to improve your YUConnects and Saw You at Sinai dating experience, which I have titled:

Y U Don't Connect - OR - How Not To Be Seen At Sinai.

Please be sure to check out the first and second posts.

Today’s post covers two aspects of an issue that plagues both shadchanim and daters: Lack of courtesy in establishing/maintaining contact by phone.

Part 1:

On occasion, ASoG and I have been fortunate enough to achieve a mutual match, wherein both the guy and girl have checked out the other party’s profile and decided to accept the suggestion. Once the second person clicks the accept button, YUConnects/Saw You at Sinai sends out an automated email containing both numbers, along with the message that the guy should make contact within a short period of time.

It seems simply right? Wrong.

ASoG and I simply don’t understand why guys tend to drag their heels like crazy when it comes to making that first call. Granted, a first phone call is nerve-wracking, but it really shouldn’t be more than a “Hello, how are you? When are you available to go out? I have a few ideas of what we could do, please let me know what you’d prefer.” Scheduling the first phone call can be practically annoying as well, because it is rather silly to call the girl up and ask, “Hello, when will you be free to talk about our first date?” Or the cringe-worthy opener, “Hello, this is so-and-so, is now a good time?"

A much less complicated approach, which I used when I was dating, is to just text the girl and say “Hi, it’s Ploni Almoni from YUConnects. Could you please let me know when/what time would be good to call you to discuss the first date?”

For some reason however, this doesn’t get done so readily. We get calls or emails from girls asking what’s going on, it’s been several days to a week since the phone numbers were sent out and they haven’t heard a peep from Mr. Phone-a-phobe. In our effort to be as helpful as possible, we contact the guy and ask him what the deal is. Every single time we’ve received some lame excuse that in no way vindicates his lack of courtesy in leaving the girl hanging.

By the time we’ve basically yelled at the guy (not quite, though we are quite firm in giving him a bit of mussar), the girl has begun to lose interest because the guy is clearly not quite the mentsch-type if he can’t think about the girl’s feelings while he goes about his business ignoring her. While most times the guy will call right after we hang up, apologize profusely, and things go forward from there, there have been instances where he continued to dilly-dally and the girl got a better offer and dropped him, much to his (self inflicted) disappointment.

Lesson #1 – Guys should ALWAYS call/text the girl ASAP after a mutual match is approved. It really doesn’t take much effort to send a text inquiring her availability for a phone call. Without this first step, no one’s going to connect to anybody since they’ve forced an awkward non-starter.

Point 2:

As soon as we find out that we have a soon-to-be dating couple, we make sure to reach out to each party and let them know we’re there to help in any way we can, including being their go-between for the first few dates, or fielding any questions and responding to issues that may arise as dating goes on.

Many times, no one even responds to this friendly email, so the couple goes out some random number of times and ends the shidduch without telling us anything. We end up emailing them to find out what the deal was, or we try contacting them while they are dating to check up on them and still get no response.

This sort of situation has also led to some awkward and hastily concluded matches because one of the two parties suddenly gets antsy after the first, second, or third date, wants to end the shidduch, but can’t bring him/herself to do so.

Now, I firmly believe this is why the shadchanim are there and why they should be involved in the first few dates. Once a relationship has been established, at say 4-5 dates, then the couple should be comfortable enough to discuss things amongst themselves (following the State of the Union Address), and using an intermediary to decide if there is a next date (or not) is entirely unnecessary. The problem is that people think that this method is archaic, too “frum,” stupid, or whatever, and overestimate their abilities to give a face-to-face or over-the-phone direct rejection.

In this case, the culprits are almost equally divided between male and female. A concerned dater emails/calls to update us on how things are going, and he/she usually say something along the lines of, “I had a great date (or two) with X, there was good conversation, the attraction’s there, and I’m excited for our next date. But, he/she hasn’t been responding to my calls/texts and I’ve already left several voicemails that were unanswered.”

The attention required here from our end is usually more direct, so we (usually me) call the MIA dater and politely ask how things are going. The usual response is that things have been pretty good, but he/she has decided that the other person really isn’t for him/her. We’ll often have a bit of a chat about what bothers them and if their decision is definite, which it almost always is, and then I question why they haven’t been in contact with the other person. Then I hear him/her waffling on the other side of the line, only to come up with some lame excuse that they were sick, had phone trouble, out of town, or busy with work/school.

Were they honestly so busy that they couldn’t send a text or make a brief call to update the other person? And if they honestly didn’t want to continue, why let the other person sit there for days (or weeks) thinking that things were going well, only to decide to drop the bomb on them later? Of course, that job is one that we usually have to do because they’ve suddenly lost their nerve.

I’m a big advocate for using the shadchanim/connectors as go betweens for the first few dates. ASoG and I can’t force anyone to work with us as intermediaries, which is why we offer but don’t demand to be involved. However, if you as a dater decide you don’t need us, be consistent in your bevahior and courteous enough to let the other person know if you have decided to end the relationship. DO NOT drop off the face of the Earth because you’ve suddenly become a super hero by the name of Captain Awkward and need to spend your time avoiding your date. It isn’t right, it isn’t nice, and it certainly won’t help you develop any people skills as you become a more experienced dater.

Lesson #2: Once a shidduch has begun, guys AND girls should never leave the other person in the dark without contact for any extended period of time. Send that text, make that call, or better yet, use your shadchanim from the start like you’re supposed to.

Communication is key. If you can’t learn to effectively communicate now, then you’re in for some real trouble after the chuppah. If all the singles out there would simply learn to be a little more respectful and courteous of their fellow daters, the shidduch world would be a better place.

Shades Of Grey On A First Date

Just a warning: I’m a very thorough writer (in case you hadn’t noticed), so this is a long post. I hope the readers find it informative and enjoyable. So grab a drink or snack and read on, dear visitor.

After reading Bored Jewish Guy's original post (and challenge) regarding the male perspective of a first date, followed by (not) The Girl Next Door’s female viewpoint, along with Bad For Shidduchim’s call for other bloggers to participate (and their diversified posts), I’ve decided to throw my hat into the ring.

To start off, one of the reasons I think that it’s worthwhile to participate in this creative exercise, aside from the fun I derive from blogging, is because I presume my entry will be a bit different from most others out there. Particularly, since I am an out-of-towner, far from home, living in the YU dorms without a car (by choice), I don’t fit the typical sort of male dater model that most posts have written about.

Preparation

My pre-date prep usually begins about an hour before I depart my dorm room, which is often two hours before the actual date start time – taking into account the subway ride into the Times Square area (more on that later). More recently, I’ve actually dated a few girls who live on the other side of The Heights, which then shifts my preparation to the hour beforehand. I shave, shower, and brush my teeth. I also utilize the time spent taking care of my oral hygiene to pick through my clothing and finalize my outfit.

I admit to having no real sense of style, so my generic dating attire includes black or (on occasion) dark navy slacks with a solid colored, long-sleeved, button-down shirt. In the fall and winter I will also pick a matching sweater, and I have a specific, medium-length black overcoat I wear in colder weather. In general, I also happen to have particular items of clothing that are set aside exclusively for dating, since everyday clothing, including Shabbos clothing, tends to get worn down with repeated use, so I sidestep that by having a belt and pair of shoes I only wear on dates. This keeps my belt buckle and shoes nice, shiny, and unscratched/un-scuffed.

I also don my nicer pair of glasses (which are otherwise worn on Shabbos/Yom Tov and at weddings and are also less beaten up), which have been variably been frameless or half-frame. I very infrequently wear contacts, despite the comments I get from family members (thanks, Mom) that I look much handsomer without glasses. So while I don’t have a first date outfit, I usually pick between two or three colors for my shirt/sweater combo.

After I’ve gotten dressed, I make sure I have my room keys, cell phone, wallet containing subway card, credit card, and around $100 in cash (just in case) and a little sticky-note that has a list of Starbucks in the general Times Square area. I have one or two that I specifically favor, but it has sometimes occurred that my first choice had no free tables or, on occasion, that the bathroom was non-operational. Hence, I make sure to know the addresses of several nearby stores to function as a fallback plan. I empathize with Bored Jewish Guy’s concern for wallet-bulge syndrome, and empty out all unnecessary receipts and change. If I am not meeting the girl in The Heights and thus going with her to and from the date, I will also bring my iPod.

Additionally, in case of inclement weather, I will bring two mini umbrellas (the good, more expensive kind with the double hinged arms which will bend and revert back instead of breaking when exposed to the winds of NY rainy days), one for me, and one to offer my date, should she need/want one.

Side Point Regarding First Date Venues and General Etiquette

Begin Rant.

Before going any further, I have to get some things off my chest. After reading the other first date posts published thus far, I am appalled to learn that guys are so haphazard with planning their activity prior to a date. It is extremely troublesome to read that other guys out there don’t inform their date where they intend to take them, thus leaving the girls stuck wondering if they should eat beforehand, or what they should eat, and what they should wear, etc. That seems utterly irresponsible and very ungentlemanly. The very idea of asking a girl when she firsts enters the car if she is hungry or not is, in my eyes, offensively insensitive! She’s nervous enough as it is (as is the guy), why forcibly induce more awkwardness?!

One of my rabbeim in Israel very strongly related in his dating shiurim that a guy should not starve the girl under any circumstance. This means one of two things:

1) If they are going out at a standard meal-time on a non-food date, then he should tell her to eat something beforehand.
2) He should be conscious enough to realize that if he has dragged her around walking for some extended period of time that she might be thirsty, or if the date has lasted a number of hours since her pre-date snack/meal, he should offer to get her something to sate her growing hunger.

In every first phone call I have ever had, aside from generic small talk, I always give my date specific information about what my plan is for the date. Sometimes due to scheduling or whatever we end up going to a restaurant instead of Starbucks since dinnertime was the most convenient timeframe for going out. I’ll tell her the exact restaurant and make sure she knows if it is milchig or fleischig, and I will offer an alternative or two just in case she isn’t such a fan of that particular establishment.

I don’t feel so qualified to comment about the driving tendencies of my fellow males, since I’ve driven on all of two dates (my first two dates in fact, back in my hometown, two years ago). I also drive like an “out-of-towner” which seems to mean I keep to the speed limit and obeying all traffic signs/lights. I will say this, however: parallel parking is one of the banes of my existence (along with window blinds) and I totally messed up my attempt to parallel park on my first date.

Nevertheless, why do guys drive like madmen!? Fine if you want to take your own life in your hands when you are out driving, but doing anything risky when you have any passengers, ESPECIALLY the woman you might end up marrying, is really irresponsible. I’ve heard quotes in the name of Rav Nebenzahl, shlita that following the proper traffic laws is an absolute chiyuv for public safety and as part of the kiyum of dina d’malchusa dina.

Regarding cab protocol: hailing a cab isn’t so difficult, even for an outlander like me. Second, it just makes perfect sense that a guy should get in the cab (and I got this from a Commentator article on dating). Aside from the uncomfortable visual trespassing opportunity many have mentioned, this writer for the Commie said it prevents the girl from having to slide across the seat, thereby rumpling or misaligning her skirt. I think that makes a lot of sense and will always make note of this point to my date, and proceed to enter first and slide across to the far side of the cab.

In summary: Why are guys SO thickheaded about these rather basic factors that cater to their date’s needs and personal comfort?! I admit to being a stickler for etiquette and protocol, but so much of the other blogger’s experiences reflect a genuine lack of concern for the well being of their date and a paucity of gentlemanly behavior.

End Rant.

Travelling to the Date.

As I mentioned, I don’t have a car in this part of the country. Maintaining an automobile in the adverse weather conditions, fearing for its safety in The Heights, dealing with the hazards of New York traffic, and the convenience of public transportation simply make it clear in my mind that having a car here is more trouble than its worth.

Most often, getting to the date involves me sitting on the subway or inter-campus shuttle by myself heading toward the Stern dormitories or somewhere recognizable, often enough Toys R Us, where we meet and proceed to Starbucks. I am almost always listening to music that is very upbeat and pop-y, which can vary from groups such as Yaakov Chesed or Judablue to a niggun sung by Shlomo Katz or even something secular (gasp) like “GO” by Inoue Joe, a current J-Pop (Japanese pop) star. Sometimes I might not be in the best mood that day due to school or whatever is going on, so my goal is to:

1) Upgrade my mood to as happy as it can be.
2) Create an overly positive mindset – I want to legitimately greet my date cheerfully without resorting to a false display of emotions, masking what I’m really thinking/feeling. I can’t stand people who live behind a façade and pretend they’re actually interested in interacting with me, so I do my very best to never present that false face to a date.

I also sometimes randomly listen to a shiur on dating to brush up on some ideas I’ve heard before but want to ensure they are on the forefront of my mind. But, more often than not, I’m listening to my music, and getting jazzed up for what I presume will be a good experience (and I’ve seldom been disappointed).

In recent months, the occurrence of the girl living on the other side of The Heights has come up slightly more frequently. This is because since my shidduch suggestions have aged with me - I prefer girls around my own age, and that means that many of them are have graduated Stern/Touro, and are attending graduate school. In these cases, I walk over/take the local shuttle to where their apartment is and we head to the subway from there. The few that live at home while attending grad school have very graciously met me in Midtown, or sometimes in The Heights, so I have never had a meet-the-parents scenario. From what I’ve heard about the uncomfortable oddities of that experience, I’m glad I’ve never had to pick a girl up from her home.

I am always ever so grateful to the girl who schleps in to meet me, but it also makes me feel guilty for making her do that (though she often says it’s no big deal and prefers to date in the city). I have yet to get far enough in a relationship with any of these living-at-home types that would require me to go visit her in the nearby city she lives in (which is often somewhere in New Jersey or Long Island).

The Meet

In the vast majority of cases, I know what the girl looks like beforehand via a picture the friend who set us up sent me, or the pictures on her YUConnects/Saw You At Sinai profile. I try to get a picture before I say yes, because I’ve had several dates that were great on paper but just not attractive (from my perspective). After reading Bad4’s post on pictures (I forget which one), whenever I am offered a picture by the shadchan, I will immediately reply with the option of me sending my own picture for the girl to view, just to be fair. So far, no one’s taken me up on that offer (most just say yes).

I don’t have an overt tactic for “checking her out,” but will casually observe her general physical form over the course of the evening. In that same vein, I don’t feel the need to not-so-discreetly check out her posterior while riding an escalator or getting in a cab.

Whether I meet the girl on the other side of The Heights or at some location in Times Square, I always start the conversation by asking how her trip in was and how her day went. The first question gets a very quick, courteous answer, and the second is perfectly neutral and a good conversation opener. I usually know a bit about her educational background/career plans, so this gives me a chance to delve a bit deeper into that. She’ll often reciprocate, knowing my own career aspirations from my profile/the shadchan and inquire about me and my educational goals as well.

I also always do my best to hold open the door for her and I’ve never had anyone refuse this civil gesture. However, some have grabbed the door handle and opened it for me when I was too mentally involved in the budding conversation and totally missed my cue. In that case, I’ll thank her and offer a quip about her taking away my gentlemanly duties, which she usually finds funny (this then often leads into a discussion about those sorts of things).

I will also ALWAYS offer to use my Metro card to pay for her ride, which the vast majority of dates have accepted without question. I swipe for her first, she goes through, and then I swipe and enter after her. A small minority have insisted she use her own card since she has an unlimited/monthly whatever card, and one or two of those girls even offered to swipe for me!

Once inside the Starbucks, I will quickly scout out any free tables and of those available (if there are more than one) point it out to her so we can quickly claim it before anyone else gets the jump on us, which has happened once or twice. After acquiring our seats, and setting down our coats (if need be) I suggest that if she doesn’t have a specific drink in mind and wants to check out the menu, that she go first and decide while I hold down the fort, after which I will go order and pay for both of us when she returns with her choice.

I am not a coffee drinker at all, so I only buy one of two things, depending on the weather and my tastes at that moment : Naked Juice or a tall (small) vanilla latte. Why a vanilla latte, you ask? It was recommended to me by my married friend from my hometown who set me up on my first date when I told her that I didn’t like coffee. It’s very mild, semi-sweet, and pretty drinkable, so I’ve ordered it numerous times since then.

I always find it a little awkward to wait in line by myself after I’ve made our order, while my date sits at our table by herself. This is especially true if our table is nowhere near the service counter and I can’t even make small talk adequately. It feels like I’ve abandoned her, only moments after we’ve officially met, and it goes against my sense of gentlemanliness. Once I’ve paid and received the drinks, I quickly hop over (not literally) to the condiment/napkin stand and grab a few napkins before heading back to the table.

The Conversation

Now the fun begins!

The first “real” conversation often picks up wherever we left off when we were chatting upon entering the Starbucks. Since the “how was your day” bit can only last so long, and because we’ve pretty much exhausted that by this point, we will shift into several “safe” topics. These subjects include: Year(s) in Israel experiences, Jewish geography/mutual friends/how we know the person(s) who set us up, Jewish music (I am a HUGE Jewish music fan, so this is always an enjoyable topic, unless she doesn’t like Jewish music), current events, YU/Stern Hock, and secular popular culture.

This can then tangent into fluffier hashkafic topics, rabbeim we both know (from YU/Stern or Israel), general bits of info about our families – such as family trips, Shabbos meals, extended family relationships. Invariably, a dating story or two is brought up, both bad and simply funny. I don’t really have that many such stories to tell, but I add to my paltry list a sampling of stories that my roommates/chevrusas have shared (leaving out all essential identifying details).

I also sometimes veer off into deeper ideas of hashkafa, or some other “serious” topic which is officially a no-no. I never just stop the conversation, but do try to not go full-force with all my hashkafic/religious nuances. I think it’s important to give the girl a general sense about who I am and what my interests/beliefs are, sort of a sampling, which she will then use as part of her evaluation regarding if I deserve a second date or not.

Small pauses in conversation are normal, but I have sometimes found that some girls aren’t really into talking so much. This has shocked me, since I always though girls were the more talkative gender (no offense meant, and the Gemara in Brachos backs me up on this anyway).

In general, I don’t try to lead the conversation or guide it one way or another. I don’t have a specific set of topics I want to cover. If there is anything on her profile that warrants further discussion, I’ll save it for a later date when I’ve learned more about her and can evaluate if any minor concerns were really warranted or not, after which I would then bring them up. I also believe that proper conversation is a supposed to be give and take. If I feel that I am asking too many questions and she’s not reciprocating, I’ll try and lead her into asking me something.

Oddly enough, I sometimes find that I am the more talkative of the two of us. When I first started dating, I felt I was a real introvert, but I have since developed my conversational skills to a much greater functional degree. As one sibling put it, I used to hardly talk at all (since I have always been more of a quiet, deep thinker than social butterfly), and now I won’t shut up. So I have to be mindful of this, and will let the shadchan know if I think I succumbed to this new talkative tendency of mine just to make sure the girl wasn’t overwhelmed by the flow of information I shared.

I also happen to talk very quickly, and have worked very hard to diminish the speed of my speech. My mind just works too quickly for my lips, and this sometimes leads to mispronunciation in my haste to tell a story or whatever. When I am more consciously aware of how fast I’m speaking, I will immediately pause for breath and switch gears into a more languid expression. The slower pace of talking sometimes makes me feel like my tongue is dancing over the words that exit my mouth, which is an interesting sensation (in a good way).

The girl will often marvel at my lack of any discernable accent or noticeable out-of-towner quirks, and I’ll assure her that I’m the anomaly in the family (for better or worse) in this area, despite having living in my hometown for the first 18 years of my life. That also leads into fun discussion about background differences, usually centering on them bemoaning the typical nature of theirs and curiously inquiring about my rather different upbringing.

Using the Bathroom

When I first started dating, I was very nervous to excuse myself to use the restroom, but I have since wizened up and realize that this isn’t a big deal at all. However, the actual departure from the table and return is still a bit awkward. There is also the problem that is more applicable for guys than girls, which is making sure my fly is properly zipped up. Thankfully, I’ve never had any embarrassing incidents, but the possibility makes me a little paranoid.

After several hours since my last bathroom use before I left my dorm, combined with the consumption of an entire Naked Juice or coffee, using the facilities inevitably becomes a necessity. My problem, which still happens every now and then, is that I become so enthralled with the conversation that I ignore the pleas of my bladder and end up realizing I should use the bathroom just as we are about to leave (and before the long subway ride back), which is awkward in its own way. If I am taking the shuttle back, I’ll usually wait until I get to the Brookdale lobby so as not to interrupt the date.

Ending the Date

When the typical pauses in conversation suddenly become grindingly painful, I know we’ve run out of things to talk about. Sometimes the girl will need to catch a certain bus or meet someone to get a ride home for Shabbos, so I’m more consciously aware of needing to end the date by a specific time. If we happen to be at a restaurant, the course of the meal generally leads toward a conclusion pretty readily (and I can only ignore the waiter’s request for me to pay the bill so many times).

I usually (but not always) pick up the subtle hints that she is getting a little tired or bored, and will ask, “So, do you think it’s time to head back?” She’ll then nod her head and express an affirmation of my suspicions. We gather our things, clear the table and throw away our trash. I’m always conflicted about what I should do with plastic bottles in these stores that don’t have recycling bins (what can I say, I’ve been brainwashed, in a good way, by YU’s Recycle-mania). In such a scenario, I’ll mention recycling to the girl, and she very often expresses a similar sentiment. If she seems aghast at the idea of me putting the bottle in my coat pocket (this only works in the winter, I’m not going to carry a bottle in my hand back in the subway, but sometimes I will carry it to Brookedale where they DO have recycling bins), I’ll just swallow my greener inclination and throw the bottle away with the rest of the refuse.

And yes, I’ve had situations where we are both likeminded in this area and we each take our empty bottles back with us. Call me crazy if you will – but this only happens every once and a while when I don’t get a vanilla latte.

After we leave, I will: A) Walk her back to her dorm and hang out in the Brookdale Lounge, listening to my iPod until the shuttle arrives B) Walk her to the bus station or C) Head back to the subway with my date and accompany her back to the entrance of her apartment building.

If I am taking her back to her apartment, we continue talking, with varying results. Sometimes conversation really picks up after the lull between the official "end" of the date and getting settled in the subway, while other times all interaction is basically dead in the water. In that case, we chat lightly, but mostly about nothing in particular, while taking advantage of the noisiness of the subway ride to create breaks instead of forcing continued dialogue.

Saying Goodnight

Saying goodnight is always awkward. I have never even thought of asking the girl for a second date then and there, because that puts her on the spot unfairly, even if I can readily tell that she liked me and will say yes. I usually thank her for accompanying me and make a reference to having enjoyed myself, after she responds in kind. I then awkwardly mention something to the effect of we’ll each get back to the shadchan and see where we go from here, which she’ll agree to in very neutral, sometimes restrained fashion (if she likes me). I wish her a final goodnight, thank her again, and she makes her exit.

The Journey Back

I’m either on the subway or shuttle listening to music of some kind (depending on my mood). I prefer the shuttle if possible, especially if it’s late, since it will drop me off right in front of my dorm building (so I don’t have to trek through the local neighborhood, and in the cold if it’s winter), is free, and far less obnoxious than taking the subway in general. I lose myself in the music, ignoring everything happening around me, and reflect on the date. I usually have a good time on a first date, but I’ll also think over the one or two rough spots that might have cropped up. If I really like her, I may end up listening to bouncy wedding songs on the way back (a bit premature, I know).

The Decision

In the vast majority of cases, I will always go on a second date. I’ve never had issues with looks that were so disturbing that I’d turn down another chance. I did want to end one shidduch after a first date (the first YUConnects shidduch) since we were simply incompatible on a number of issues, but my connector guilt-tripped me into a second date (wherein I noticed the issues didn’t change at all, and I ended it then). The one other time I wanted to end the shidduch after the first date since I couldn't identify with the girl at all, despite her great qualities, and she thought the same thing.

I’ll call the shadchan and give my post-date debriefing which consists of a short summary, a highlight of the positive points of what transpired, and what I liked about her. He/she will respond, “great, I’ll call her and see what she thought.” With the exception of one girl, they always say yes to a second date.

If I hear back from the shadchan that night that she agreed to another outing, I go to bed very pleased with the results of the evening. If it’s too late to call him/her, or they say they’ll call the girl in the morning, I’m still happy, but also a little nervous that she’s going to say no (even if that hasn’t been a widespread concern).

Conclusion

So there you have it, after thinking about this all week and mentioning my in-progress status on numerous other blogs’ comments, I’ve finished my version of the nitty-gritty details of Shades of Grey on a first date. I hope this has been an enlightening educational read. Comments and questions are most welcome!

Shidduch Vision and First Phone Calls

I don't really follow the more yeshivish news so much, but I saw this link from Yeshiva World News posted at Bad 4 Shidduchim and found it very interesting. In short, Gedolei Hador have decided to sanction a frum video-dating service - that will help alleviate the disappointment and waste of money that could arise from participating in a long distance shidduch. With the new system, a person visits a ShidduchVision studio and has up to three video-conference sessions with the prospective candidate, after which he/she decides if an actual trip is worthwhile or not.

I think this is kind of cool. It makes a lot of sense to me. The one downside I can see at the moment is that the anticipated first phone call awkwardness is upped to a whole new level. You don't just see a picture of a person (at least theoretically, and more practically, the guy seems to be the only one shown a picture) and nervously dial their number/answer the phone. Instead, you have to dress up as though for a date, and for all intents and purposes, this basically is a first set of dates.

I do wonder if these actually count at all toward their overall date tally. Especially in the yeshivish world where a quota on dates seems to be the thing to do, with certain numbers means reaching certain stages. As much as one can learn from this sort of encounter, I would hope that the significance is minimized, perhaps counting all three (if indeed all three meetings are utilized) as just a first date. First dates are always (or at least should be) viewed merely as means to know if it is worthwhile to see the person again. Most of the time, I would presume a second date is worthwhile, unless the other person is so hideously vile, or clearly unstable/violent/rude or something of that nature.

I'm sure a lot can be gained from the video conferencing, but I have found having an extended first phone conversation (and add to that knowing how the person looks) can be beneficial too. Upon further thought, I'm not sure that the video meeting is any better than the picture plus phone call. But that may be just me, or at least the more modern circles wherein the first phone call isn't always just a quick 10-minute "How do you do, my dear? When are you next available for an outing? Starbucks next Thursday at five sound splendid. Until then, tah tah!" So perhaps I should rephrase the beginning of this paragraph and say that this new innovation can be very helpful for this specific dating market (Lakewood, etc).

I've heard recommendations from credible sources (such as Rav Goldvicht, at his dating 101 shiur) that first phone calls aren't meant to be so lengthy, and certainly shouldn't be a "first date" sort of conversation. Invariably, I have found out that, more often then not, the phone call becomes something more than a quick calender check session. When I first started dating, I had no clue what I was doing. This newbie nervousness amped up the awkwardness of that initial call, and thus the duration was typically short.

More recently, I've had first phone calls that have neared the three-hour mark. I definitely do not think that those were by any means standard (especially since neither shidduch really went anywhere in the end). One recent first call that I had was a little over an hour long, didn't drag out, was very casual and nice, and we still fit in the date scheduling at the end. That, I think, is a good/better way to handle things. This type of conversation certainly cuts down on the rigidity of the first actual meeting to a degree, and now the person you're going out with isn't a totally foreign entity.

I also think that a semi-decent first phone call can be an indicator of sorts for how the first date will go as well. True, there is no guarantees in such things, but just as point of empirical evidence: the shortest first phone call I had in in recent memory lasted under 20 minutes, and she dropped me after the first date - which has NEVER happened before. True, I must be dan lekaf zechus and presume she saw something was terribly off (which then makes me feel bad because it I then mentally put MYSELF into that hideously vile/bad person category I mentioned earlier). As a point of etiquette, I think most everyone deserves a second date - Rav Goldvicht even mentioned a third date as part of this initial procedure. So I can't help but wonder why she and I were so far off that she wouldn't consider a second date. Instead of thinking about how terrible I might be, I'm going to presume that the first phone call/her own research wasn't enough to really know if the idea was really shayach or not, and that she only found that out upon meeting me. Also, as I mentioned in the post about rejection, at least she was the one who nixed me, and not the other way around.

With regard to inyanei d'yoma (even if it is after midnight), I would like to publicly say that I am thankful for all the experiences that I've had so far, both good and bad, as well as all the wonderful people who have helped me as shadchanim, mentors, and sources of advice. I really do appreciate every ounce of effort they make to assist me in my quest for a spouse; especially those who have endeavored to keep me in mind and set me up more than once. I hope all their hard work pays off soon...

Great Date... Things to Consider

Today was probably the longest first date I've ever been on: almost, if not precisely - 5 hours. I totally lost track of time and didn't even check my watch at some random interval (inconspicuously of course). I've gotten better at weaving in that "looking a the watch" move into a gesture related to the conversation, such as a remark someone made about looking at time or something... I try to be nonchalant about these things - without offending people. As they say, time flies when you're having fun - and the conversation is flowing, personalities are meshing well, hashkafic similarity becomes evident, and the interplay of give and take of ideas feels natural. It also didn't hurt that unlike last time (and a few others before then), I thought she was fairly attractive.

This was also after a very positive, nearly 3 hour long initial phone conversation last week. I get the feeling that first phone calls really aren't meant to be nearly that long - basically the length of an actual date. But as with the date itself, what's wrong with prolonging the experience if both are enjoying the other's company and positive relationship-building is occurring?

Onto things to consider....

One concern that has become apparent this time, which I've never encountered in this fashion before, and is actually no fault to the person, but still something to consider: family medical history. I'm not talking about her grandfather died of a heart attack, but rather there is a much more immediate family member that suffered from a certain disease, and was successfully treated (thankfully), but statistically could mean that she is almost certainly at a higher risk for developing the same condition herself at some later stage in life.

Now, you could say to me, "Grey, you're being far too nit-picky about these things, give her a chance, and think about that sort of morbid topic later." While I admit that revealing the fact that a grandparent died of some ill-health related circumstance would certainly reflect negatively on me as well (paternal grandmother had Alzheimer's for 11 years, and her husband, my paternal grandfather had cancer, twice I think, and eventually died from it), and I would assume that most people's grandparents, unless they died relatively young, developed something that contributed to the end of their life, since as people age, things in the body start to go wrong. However, something like say, a parent, makes me a bit more anxious. Total family genetic history aside - a direct connection like that gives me a cause for concern.

I'm not going to go off the deep end and not have a second date because of this family medical history revelation (which I did not know beforehand, but maybe I just didn't ask the right people when I did research, or perhaps I should have let my usual research people do their job instead of me feeling all gung-ho and wanting to do things on my own). This is not something that can be entirely ignored and placed out of mind, particularly when I recall the recent panel discussion on the BRCA gene (breast cancer gene) that occurred at the Medical Ethics Conference (see audio files here: medicine, ethics, halacha). However, I fully realize that there is no guarantee of anyone having these sorts of inherited diseases (unless their entire immediate family and other extended family members have/had it, and their statistic risk goes through the roof), and this is not something I should be worried about at the moment.

She did freely offer the information unprompted, and seems to be not so concerned, I would presume since, thankfully, the condition was diagnosed in the early stages and proper treatment was sought and administered successfully. It was still a bit jarring to hear that mentioned so readily on a first date. Reality is what it is, and certainly everything that needs to be disclosed needs to be told over at the appropriate time in the dating process so that one can make an informed decision about this person as a viable marriage candidate. Maybe I was just thrown for a loop because of how early this was brought up (and rather early on in the date as well, even though it was semi-quickly dealt with and we moved on to other, more interesting topics).

Also, no one is perfect, and no one has a perfect personal or family medical history. I must learn to be non-judgmental about things like this, or perhaps that is overly judgmental, since nothing of this sort can be entirely ignored or denied.

It's up to me to focus my attention soley on her now and delve deeper into what makes her such a great person (as her friends attested to, and I'm just beginning to find out myself). Where we go from here, who knows? It's time to look forward to the second date.